Venting I'm tired of the way people and ACTUAL THERAPISTS talk about Suicide and how they have no nuance on the subject.

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

Either it's selfish or they consider it to be akin to being in a burning building and the person suffering from suicide wanting out of the building. It's like they just had an orgasm + epiphany at the same time and now you'll only hear burning building, burning building, oh my DEAR burning building.

As with any action, suicide can have many causes, for some odd and unspecified reason we are not looking to find more insight on these varied causes is insane to me but understandable. People consider some of the causes to be childish or pointless, this is why they are not tinkered with and basically ignored. Why is that? Because of their ego, they could do better in our place, they could find a way out; so they call you words and say you're pathetic when you have any other reason than chemical imbalance.

*Filler rant down bellow*

However when you frame it as a disease with an unavoidable effect that is chemical imbalance for example, they realise that they can't control their brain chemicals and give up on the bickering because they know it's "objective and unforgiving for all of us and not the suicidal person's fault and they could too suffer in the same way", LIKE WHAT THE FUCK? Now you care when you literally have no OTHER OPTION THAN TO CARE? Reminds me of prostitution, the women doing it are so empowered! ignore the fact that it's the only job that pays enough for them to not die of hunger! Power to women YAY!

A future to be popular movement for bettering the lives of every living thing on this planet is veganism; OBJECTIVELY veganism is about animal cruelty but if we'd ever achieve veganism in our real world it'd be because of pollution and humans being in danger via pollution, why is that? Because animal cruelty ISN'T taken seriously.

The help regarding all these is proportional and equivalent to how they are treated and CLASSIFIED as problems. For example, a society that treats suicide as chemical imbalance is useless for those that are suicidal due to life circumstances that are not chemical, plain and simple, meds will not work, therapy will 90% of the time not work, etc. A society that treats veganism as pollution and NOT animal cruelty would have no problem having 500000 cows/pigs/chickens in some torture plasma/blood sucking chamber in order to make lab grown meat on an INSANE scale to replace the living animals needed.

 

[itsgone2]

For example, a society that treats suicide as chemical imbalance is useless for those that are suicidal due to life circumstances that are not chemical, plain and simple, meds will not work, therapy will 90% of the time not work, etc.

This is how I've always been treated. "You should stay on Prozac". No, I'm not randomly depressed. There are reasons I'm in this place. I would assume some people do have an imbalance but no I agree it's not universal.

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

This is how I've always been treated. "You should stay on Prozac". No, I'm not randomly depressed. There are reasons I'm in this place. I would assume some people do have an imbalance but no I agree it's not universal.

It's robotic and sad, we are thrown under the bus, just like many abused victims (which includes every kind of abuse possible), believe me when I say that people treat abuse with a robust and robotic manner that doesn't work for everyone (and they also recommend unhealthy and unsafe "methods of healing"), it's disturbing.

They read of papers and parrot it back to us like we are a video game character who just needs to get the right answer/item so they can proceed to the next line of dialogue, word for fucking word most people don't see other people as people, they run off auto pilot and it never dawns on them (some don't even have the capability of exiting that auto-pilot)

 

[Antyquel]

Most people only pretend - or gaslight themselves - into caring about suicide out of pure self-interest. They'll only show concern for those who they deem to have "valid" reasons to be suicidal, and everyone else basically gets told to kill themselves. I've seen numerous occasions where someone open ups to being suicidal for a reason that isn't socially acceptable, and gets dogpiled with people telling them to ctb. People will bend over backwards and act compassionate if it strokes their ego or scores moral points. They act like fucking machines when it comes to this topic - dehumanizing and venerating you at the same time - all as some attempt to appease you while robbing you of your own agency, as if your thoughts and choices stop belonging to you the moment you say anything related to suicide. There's no sincerity in it, and I genuinely feel sorry to those who can't see past the smoke and mirrors - especially the ones paying for therapy believing they'll finally be heard by someone who genuinely cares about them

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

Most people only pretend - or gaslight themselves - into caring about suicide out of pure self-interest. They'll only show concern for those who they deem to have "valid" reasons to be suicidal, and everyone else basically gets told to kill themselves. I've seen numerous occasions where someone open ups to being suicidal for a reason that isn't socially acceptable, and gets dogpiled with people telling them to ctb. People will bend over backwards and act compassionate if it strokes their ego or scores moral points. They act like fucking machines when it comes to this topic - dehumanizing and venerating you at the same time - all as some attempt to appease you while robbing you of your own agency, as if your thoughts and choices stop belonging to you the moment you say anything related to suicide. There's no sincerity in it, and I genuinely feel sorry to those who can't see past the smoke and mirrors - especially the ones paying for therapy believing they'll finally be heard by someone who genuinely cares about them

They start to pretend only after scientists/doctors tell them to care about it, obviously the natural member above them in the hierarchy knows best. On top of that anyone who doesn't follow the scientists/doctors way is below them (not saying they aren't right about many facts but not everything they say is factual).

They truly give 0 shits and they dehumanize and venerate you at the same time becauses they only want to live a hedonistic life, they don't care who gets hurt for it, they GASLIGHT you into living yours while you are in terrible pain, they don't do that because they are afraid of seeing you die (although there are people who do this), they gaslight you because they know nothing matters but they don't care, they realised it and choose to do only evil and please themselves everyday until the day they die, everything is made in order for you to get used by others and you need to be alive in order to get used by them.

This is why they go through the effort, first to feel better than you and stroke their ego because of the situation you are in and for the fact that you can't see the "easy" answer the doctors have provided--> thus in their eyes you are dumb and they are smart, 2nd to humiliate you, gaslight you and have power over you and 3rd because in the end, it's a win win for them, whether you live or die, if you die they got good entertainment out of your life and if you live they now got another cog in the machine that they can feel better about.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I feel this frustration too. The other thing I've found is the assumption that we find suicidal thoughts intrusive. Which relates to the whole: 'You don't really want to die. You just want the pain to end.' Ultimately: 'You'd like life if it was different.' They don't seem to take into account that it can- as you say, be very difficult to change our lives sufficiently. Sometimes it's impossible. Maybe we could choose to accept our shit lot but then- why should we?

But yeah, following the SN welfare check, I was put in touch with a 'helpline'. The first lady I spoke to was at least pleasant but she said: 'Don't you think we should talk about these intrusive thoughts you've been having.' The truth is- they were only intrusive the first couple of times I had them- aged 10. It didn't take long at all to figure out the stigma around suicide was what other people believed and were trying to push on me.

That it was understandable that I wanted to leave my life at that point. It was a particularly awful time. But that therefore, suicide was and has been for 35 years since- a symbol of escape and freedom for me. Far from being intrusive, it's a welcome permanent solution to having to participate in this shit show.

I just find it weird that they must think somewhere underneath it all, we must still know that suicide is the wrong decision. It's not to say it may never be a rash and maybe not thought through decision but ultimately- it's only us who can decide.

What would 'fix' our lives? Can we likely make those changes? Can we bear to put ourselves through that? Will the end result likely be worth it? I imagine the majority of suicidal people have asked themselves those questions. I doubt that many people at all take their lives without rationally thinking about life first.

I hate the way suicidal people are often portrayed as two people. The one that's suffering, the victim- the one everyone remembers and loves and then- the murdering disease that has taken a grip over them. It's just too simplistic- like you say. It's not to say it never happens. Maybe it does. But, everything is interlinked. Why is that person struggling so much? Is it truly some crazy disease that hit out if the blue? Why can't people also accept that their choice to end their suffering came from them? Not some demonic possession!

 

[powerchicken]

it's genuinely so frustrating to watch this happen to myself, I just passed one year hrt and I'm feeling so hopeless about whatever path I choose to take, whether that be CTB or whatever else. Society is just increasingly pitted against you and you have to grovel for basic respect and decency. I'm tired of being a freak and an outcast and I feel like shit contributing to these statistics of so many young trans ppl but it just feels fucking impossible, I'm broke and I'm lonely and I'm stuck in this dead end job with no hope for the future. I feel bad for my partner and for my mutuals and roommates who are trans themselves and helped get me out of my shitty living situation in the first place. fuck capitalism and fuck fascists.

 

[vitbar]

I believe depression itself is a lot of the reason for this. It can shape a person's perception so that doom seems the only option. This is what therapists assume is going on.

Medical people are going to try and use medicine to help you. They will think that is what you want from them. They probably have more nuanced takes, but they have to be careful because of the law. Doctors will speak with patients about refusal to be resuscitated for instance.

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

It's robotic and sad, we are thrown under the bus, just like many abused victims (which includes every kind of abuse possible), believe me when I say that people treat abuse with a robust and robotic manner that doesn't work for everyone (and they also recommend unhealthy and unsafe "methods of healing"), it's disturbing.

They read of papers and parrot it back to us like we are a video game character who just needs to get the right answer/item so they can proceed to the next line of dialogue, word for fucking word most people don't see other people as people, they run off auto pilot and it never dawns on them (some don't even have the capability of exiting that auto-pilot)

As a person with PTSD myself, this checks out. I think people just don't understand the impacts of trauma unless they experience it firsthand, and also they genuinely believe you can pop a pill, talk to a therapist, and be cured in a matter of weeks.

Most types of therapy for PTSD are just slightly different flavours of exposure designed to de-sensitize you to certain things, and if you're the type of person like me who isn't really helped by this, people automatically think you're just being stubborn and refusing to get better. Video game dialogues with a blocking/loop system in place to prevent you from progressing in the story is an apt comparison. It really does feel like talking in circles trying to explain it to someone who doesn't get it, and the number of people who *do* get it is miniscule enough to where it becomes a hail mary to find them.

I feel this frustration too. The other thing I've found is the assumption that we find suicidal thoughts intrusive. Which relates to the whole: 'You don't really want to die. You just want the pain to end.' Ultimately: 'You'd like life if it was different.' They don't seem to take into account that it can- as you say, be very difficult to change our lives sufficiently. Sometimes it's impossible. Maybe we could choose to accept our shit lot but then- why should we?

But yeah, following the SN welfare check, I was put in touch with a 'helpline'. The first lady I spoke to was at least pleasant but she said: 'Don't you think we should talk about these intrusive thoughts you've been having.' The truth is- they were only intrusive the first couple of times I had them- aged 10. It didn't take long at all to figure out the stigma around suicide was what other people believed and were trying to push on me.

That it was understandable that I wanted to leave my life at that point. It was a particularly awful time. But that therefore, suicide was and has been for 35 years since- a symbol of escape and freedom for me. Far from being intrusive, it's a welcome permanent solution to having to participate in this shit show.

I just find it weird that they must think somewhere underneath it all, we must still know that suicide is the wrong decision. It's not to say it may never be a rash and maybe not thought through decision but ultimately- it's only us who can decide.

What would 'fix' our lives? Can we likely make those changes? Can we bear to put ourselves through that? Will the end result likely be worth it? I imagine the majority of suicidal people have asked themselves those questions. I doubt that many people at all take their lives without rationally thinking about life first.

I hate the way suicidal people are often portrayed as two people. The one that's suffering, the victim- the one everyone remembers and loves and then- the murdering disease that has taken a grip over them. It's just too simplistic- like you say. It's not to say it never happens. Maybe it does. But, everything is interlinked. Why is that person struggling so much? Is it truly some crazy disease that hit out if the blue? Why can't people also accept that their choice to end their suffering came from them? Not some demonic possession!

Thank you for saying this, I also feel very annoyed when people have called my thoughts intrusive despite them now being with me for over half my life. I think a lot of people, like the helpline worker, view this kind of pain as incredibly shocking and disturbing, not realising that for some people we have spent so long suffering that having suicidal thoughts starts to feel more like a mundane occurrence rather than an emergency, which is how most people tend to view it.

I think the idea that people can suffer for such a long time makes those individuals deeply uncomfortable. Like you, when I first started thinking about suicide during my childhood, it did feel really shocking and intrusive, I think because everything I heard or saw taught me as such, that whatever I was feeling in that moment would immediately go away if I felt guilty and sought the right assistance. Yet, when nothing helped and they were still there, I realized I was experiencing something outside the realm of social acceptability, because there is such an intense negative stigma towards suicidal people in general, but especially those who don't have easily fixable problems.

I never thought about it that way, but it is actually really true that people view it as some sort of demonic possession. Every time I have made a well-thought out, rationalised argument about not having very much quality of life, I immediately get hit with the, "well you're just sick and mentally ill" line no matter what I say. It's like you're either delusional in their mind, or resistant to change, or both, and they never want to accept that not everyone can be the master of their own destiny like what is constantly preached in self-improvement circles.

Not even lying, I've been told by people that if they were in my situation they don't know how they would cope and would probably ctb, then turn right around and act shocked if I actually express the same thoughts about my own life. The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

I believe depression itself is a lot of the reason for this. It can shape a person's perception so that doom seems the only option. This is what therapists assume is going on.

Medical people are going to try and use medicine to help you. They will think that is what you want from them. They probably have more nuanced takes, but they have to be careful because of the law. Doctors will speak with patients about refusal to be resuscitated for instance.

As cynical as it is, I agree that there are a number of healthcare workers who might agree with some people here but have their hands tied. That being said, no one is fighting to change the regulations and laws to accommodate for these situations within the professions and it's sad. Being sold false hope and told to just hang in there, when you've exhausted all the options within the purview of current medical science is one of the worst feelings ever, from personal experience.