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prototypian

prototypian

Student
May 6, 2024
114
Not disturbing as in violent or perverted: I was thinking about my upbringing as Catholic. Then I started thinking about several logic things. 1) why was I born-I had no choice in the matter, I didn't ask for it, if I had more knowledge before I would have said "nah" and it's not really an existence I want. 2) Christianity says that there are only two choices (ignoring the purgatory or other side bits for now) heaven or hell. That's it. My only two choices. After death you are either judged to be able to get your camel through the eye of the needle and get everlasting peace and joy or everlasting torment, bee stings, commercial interruptions and bad music piped in forever. No way around it and repeat the fact that Jesus died for your sins over and over as the only way forward from the separation of the two absolute end points. God is infinitely living, merciful, kind and forgiving but absolute in his dispensing of irreversible endless torment or absolute peace with no take backs and a zero tolerance because he is all good and all loving.

What is my puny brain missing here?
 
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katara

katara

tiktok.com/@katara3250
Mar 17, 2022
492
same upbringing, it's difficult making any sense of it you'll go crazy trying to.
 
H

Hvergelmir

Mage
May 5, 2024
560
What is my puny brain missing here?
Christianity is contradicting itself quite a lot. All of it cannot be true, logically.
If you want something that could be true, even hypothetically, you'll need to interpret at least part of it, loosely.
 
F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
13,033
I don't feel like your brain is missing anything. Mine came to the same conclusion. Plus, other disturbing conclusions. @hell toupee cited a brilliant quote in another thread- that sums up my concerns:


Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

-Epicurus



If hell really does exist and we are in an examination this whole time then, there are so many unfair nuances to it. We've been designed to be highly tempted to sin for one. Why even put those desires in us if they are unwanted and can be punished? Surely- it's because God wants to punish and, have an excuse to.

God seemingly wants us to love them but gives us so many reasons to doubt. Even to hate them. That just sounds like a narcissist to me- in human terms. Why would I want to be in a relationship with a narcissist?

Plus, some utterly crazy shit too. Like you say- you were born into Catholicism. Others will have been born into countries with other religions. If there is only one true religion and, you get into trouble for practicing the wrong one- how were those people supposed to know? Why even allow over 10,000 religions to exist, if only one is correct?

God could clear so much up by simply revealing themselves to all of us. So, why don't they? Because they value blind faith and obedience? But, we aren't a blind faith kind of species. We question. We were designed to question. So again- why design a creature a certain way if you want it to be another way? It doesn't make sense- unless you are playing some sadistic game.

The argument I hear in response is the value of free will. That that superseeds everything else. But then- really? It's worth children getting raped in order for peadophiles to be judged on using their free will that way? Could't God have just decided not to give people that specific desire?

If it just evolved that way and was beyond God's knowledge or control then- the above quote comes in- God clearly isn't omnipotent if they can't have predicted or, can't control the evil in this world.

So therefore, the only conclusion seems to me that it is intentional. Why would I worship a God that intended and enabled so much suffering? Because they'll punish me if I don't? I guess I'll just have to accept that. At least I'll feel as if I have the moral high ground over them- that shouldn't be possible!
 
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H

hell toupee

Student
Sep 9, 2024
129
I don't feel like your brain is missing anything. Mine came to the same conclusion. Plus, other disturbing conclusions. @hell toupee cited a brilliant quote in another thread- that sums up my concerns:


Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

-Epicurus



If hell really does exist and we are in an examination this whole time then, there are so many unfair nuances to it. We've been designed to be highly tempted to sin for one. Why even put those desires in us if they are unwanted and can be punished? Surely- it's because God wants to punish and, have an excuse to.

God seemingly wants us to love them but gives us so many reasons to doubt. Even to hate them. That just sounds like a narcissist to me- in human terms. Why would I want to be in a relationship with a narcissist?

Plus, some utterly crazy shit too. Like you say- you were born into Catholicism. Others will have been born into countries with other religions. If there is only one true religion and, you get into trouble for practicing the wrong one- how were those people supposed to know? Why even allow over 10,000 religions to exist, if only one is correct?

God could clear so much up by simply revealing themselves to all of us. So, why don't they? Because they value blind faith and obedience? But, we aren't a blind faith kind of species. We question. We were designed to question. So again- why design a creature a certain way if you want it to be another way? It doesn't make sense- unless you are playing some sadistic game.

The argument I hear in response is the value of free will. That that superseeds everything else. But then- really? It's worth children getting raped in order for peadophiles to be judged on using their free will that way? Could't God have just decided not to give people that specific desire?

If it just evolved that way and was beyond God's knowledge or control then- the above quote comes in- God clearly isn't omnipotent if they can't have predicted or, can't control the evil in this world.

So therefore, the only conclusion seems to me that it is intentional. Why would I worship a God that intended and enabled so much suffering? Because they'll punish me if I don't? I guess I'll just have to accept that. At least I'll feel as if I have the moral high ground over them- that shouldn't be possible!

Personally, I don't believe in the religious connotation of a god - there are just way too many logical contradictions with such.

Think of wearing very thick gloves your entire life - so long that you forget they are not really part of 'you' - you are so accustomed to wearing them that you mistakenly believe that once they wear out, 'you' will no longer have hands. When in fact, once those gloves are removed, you would instantly notice how restricting they were and they were just a piece of wardrobe. I believe that death can be described this way. Instantly liberating and expanding.

What I do believe is that life can be compared to a game we are playing with ourselves. That it is actually our consciousness that is co-creating reality along with all the other consciousnesses that are here. I believe we have confined ourselves to the limitations of physical reality because it is meant as an opportunity to learn things. We have in fact prepared a basic script that we are following, as very careful planning went in to this particular incarnation, complete with barriers and obstacles that are supposed to teach us something. We certainly have the free will to approach those problems in any way we wish - within the confines of the game, that is. We have purposely chosen to forget all of this so we do not cheapen the experience.

However, in the afterlife, the creative power of consciousness is instantaneous. I believe this was one of the original purposes of religion - to provide a familiar framework to work with until you realize that your thoughts and emotions are what is creating your environment. There is no longer a delay, nor do these beliefs remain largely internal. This would explain why in NDE testimonials Christians see Jesus, Catholics see the pearly gates, still others who believe that death is nothingness might find themselves in a void, people who believe they are going to a hell might indeed finds themselves in a hellish environment,

It is not adequate to call these illusions, as they are no more illusions that what we call every day life. They are temporary, however. Until you realize that it is in fact the power of your consciousness that is no longer tethered by physical constraints.
 
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