Honesty in therapy

[peacecomingsoon]

My original ctb plan is for 4th January next year, 4 days from today. I would very much like to still ctb on this date and even have the hotel booked and everything. But, I have a therapy appointment on the next day, 5th January. This has been making me reconsider, at least staying another day or two to attend it as a last chance and also to say goodbye to my therapist before ctb (not explicitly though, just a general thank you and goodbye).

I was going to cancel the appointment all together, but yesterday my mother asked me if I was doing okay and to let her know if I wasn't. This has made me fall back into doubt and more overthinking about the impact my ctb will have on her and family... So, I've decided to extend my ctb date for 2 extra days, likely 7th January, and attend the appointment. At least so I can try one last time for my family and then have complete certainty I want to ctb with no worries like this.

My current problem is to what extent I should share my ctb plans and thoughts to my psychologist. She only knows I have been experiencing passive thoughts. But, in reality, I have already acquired SN, have already made hotel arrangements and don't believe things will improve. I also contacted a helpline a week ago who called a welfare check for me, but since it was just before Christmas, the police never came thank god. I don't know whether to include this detail or not, about the helpline and welfare check...

I feel very conflicted but overall, considering sharing that I had a previous suicide plan, have access to general means (will not say it is SN) or not mention access at all, current suicidal thoughts but no immediate risk/not planning for that specific day of the appointment. I don't even think she can help me but if it's a last shot before I die, might as well be more honest than not.

Any advice please on what I should say/disclose during the session? Preferably to avoid involuntary hospitalisation too...

 

[ipmanwc0]

If you say you have a plan, and especially if you say you intend to carry it out, you cannot avoid hospitalization. And thus I strongly recommend you don't because being in the psych ward is torture.

 

[maylurker]

basically i believe if you frame it as you have a plan and willing to do it instead of saying "sometimes i hope i don't wake up" then yeah they get you to a ward

 

[peacecomingsoon]

If you say you have a plan, and especially if you say you intend to carry it out, you cannot avoid hospitalization. And thus I strongly recommend you don't because being in the psych ward is torture.

basically i believe if you frame it as you have a plan and willing to do it instead of saying "sometimes i hope i don't wake up" then yeah they get you to a ward

Thanks for the replies. Yeah, I agree. I just don't know what to do honestly or what to say if I do attend the session to not make it completely pointless. I would like to be honest or as honest as I can without being hospitalised but know it would be basically guaranteed if I were fully transparent.

I also have a history of 3 involuntary admissions in my past, so I understand just how torturous psych ward stays are. They would most certainly try to force meds on me. What could I say then to let her know it's more than passive thoughts but not to the point of needing a ward... Or should I give up and just deny everything?

 

[ipmanwc0]

Thanks for the replies. Yeah, I agree. I just don't know what to do honestly or what to say if I do attend the session to not make it completely pointless. I would like to be honest or as honest as I can without being hospitalised but know it would be basically guaranteed if I were fully transparent.

I also have a history of 3 involuntary admissions in my past, so I understand just how torturous psych ward stays are. They would most certainly try to force meds on me. What could I say then to let her know it's more than passive thoughts but not to the point of needing a ward... Or should I give up and just deny everything?

I'm not really sure what telling the therapist would accomplish...but if you're not entirely certain you want to CTB maybe you should wait until you are.

 

[maylurker]

Thanks for the replies. Yeah, I agree. I just don't know what to do honestly or what to say if I do attend the session to not make it completely pointless. I would like to be honest or as honest as I can without being hospitalised but know it would be basically guaranteed if I were fully transparent.

I also have a history of 3 involuntary admissions in my past, so I understand just how torturous psych ward stays are. They would most certainly try to force meds on me. What could I say then to let her know it's more than passive thoughts but not to the point of needing a ward... Or should I give up and just deny everything?

make sure to let them know that you have been struggling with suicidal thoughts but at the same time you gotta emphasize that you dont have a specific plan dont have any intention on acting on them right now and commited to stay safe and working through this

 

[peacecomingsoon]

I'm not really sure what telling the therapist would accomplish...but if you're not entirely certain you want to CTB maybe you should wait until you are.

You're right ultimately and this is what I've been thinking to. That telling the therapist would accomplish nothing and just get me sent to the ward. I don't know how else I could seek 'help' or at least show that I tried to change things before ctb. I want my family to know that I at least tried, for them. But, I also know that hospitalisation won't help, forced meds won't and I've read too many ECT failures or impairments from it to consider it.

I guess my options really are limited and I'm still trying to come to terms that even if I wanted help, there just isn't any way to help at this point. I believe the answer to my question may be to deny everything and wrap things up, say goodbye and a thank you to her for all the time she's seen me.

make sure to let them know that you have been struggling with suicidal thoughts but at the same time you gotta emphasize that you dont have a specific plan dont have any intention on acting on them right now and commited to stay safe and working through this

I did this in my last session actually... It managed to get me off the hook back then before christmas holiday break too. I doubt she'll believe me if I say I feel similarly with no plans, particularly since I mentioned I failed my last university course and she knows that I normally care a lot about academics. Though now of course, I can't be bothered whatsoever about how I'm doing academically and just want everything to be over.

It doesn't matter though if she believes me or not in the end though right? Since if I don't state explicit intention or plans, she can't do anything even if she suspects more? I think I'll always have a slight doubt about ctb and help seeking, but know that ctb is my only solution long term and that I can't go through more pain for much longer.

 

[weallhaveourghosts]

It sounds to me but perhaps that I'm wrong but maybe you still have a bit of hope things have the possibility of getting better. I don't know if one last appointment will be that life changing though. I also see the need to be honest while also not wanting to risk the psych ward and there's a thin line there. You could possibly toe the line and say it's been less passive but you haven't planned or intend to act but that's still not completely truthful.

I guess the question is what are you hoping to accomplish by going to the session?

 

[maylurker]

It doesn't matter though if she believes me or not in the end though right? Since if I don't state explicit intention or plans, she can't do anything even if she suspects more? I think I'll always have a slight doubt about ctb and help seeking, but know that ctb is my only solution long term and that I can't go through more pain for much longer.

yeah they have to follow strict legal criteria that is current intent + plan + often means that would say that ur in imminent danger. if you state that you dont have any plans or not gonna act on the thoughts thats enough to keep it outpatient. they know apathy failing courses all this struggles is classic depression symptoms and not an automatic ground for a hold

 

[peacecomingsoon]

It sounds to me but perhaps that I'm wrong but maybe you still have a bit of hope things have the possibility of getting better. I don't know if one last appointment will be that life changing though. I also see the need to be honest while also not wanting to risk the psych ward and there's a thin line there. You could possibly toe the line and say it's been less passive but you haven't planned or intend to act but that's still not completely truthful.

I guess the question is what are you hoping to accomplish by going to the session?

Thanks for the reply. that's very true... I don't really have much hope with possibility of getting better as I have recurrent episodes of depression which seem to never end. this means that although this episode may very well get better if I hadn't chosen to ctb, and I would've recovered well etc, it always comes back and I can't keep going through this endless cycle. so, in this way, I don't have hope in things getting better.

but, I would've liked to have shown one way or another that I did seek or ask for help/tried to get better before my final decision of ctb for my family's sake. I don't want my ctb to be seen as a result of my 'illness', but rather a result of long contemplation and realistic thinking that in my case it will not get better and the many treatments I've tried have not helped either. I guess it's a complicated situation, sorry about that.

I'm honestly not sure what I'm hoping to accomplish by going to the session. I want to be able to thank my psychologist for her care over the last months, give closure I guess, perhaps just wrap things up and end things so that she knows she couldn't have helped. I know now that if I'm honest, the only place I'll end up is in a ward and forcibly treated. If this happens, it will only break my spirit even more and push me into complete certainty for ctb. honestly, I wish I could just cancel the appointment but since she offered it to me as a last minute appointment for the first day she's back to work and made the time for me, I don't want to disappoint her.

 

[weallhaveourghosts]

Thanks for the reply. that's very true... I don't really have much hope with possibility of getting better as I have recurrent episodes of depression which seem to never end. this means that although this episode may very well get better if I hadn't chosen to ctb, and I would've recovered well etc, it always comes back and I can't keep going through this endless cycle. so, in this way, I don't have hope in things getting better.

but, I would've liked to have shown one way or another that I did seek or ask for help/tried to get better before my final decision of ctb for my family's sake. I don't want my ctb to be seen as a result of my 'illness', but rather a result of long contemplation and realistic thinking that in my case it will not get better and the many treatments I've tried have not helped either. I guess it's a complicated situation, sorry about that.

I'm honestly not sure what I'm hoping to accomplish by going to the session. I want to be able to thank my psychologist for her care over the last months, give closure I guess, perhaps just wrap things up and end things so that she knows she couldn't have helped. I know now that if I'm honest, the only place I'll end up is in a ward and forcibly treated. If this happens, it will only break my spirit even more and push me into complete certainty for ctb. honestly, I wish I could just cancel the appointment but since she offered it to me as a last minute appointment for the first day she's back to work and made the time for me, I don't want to disappoint her.

Ah okay I think I understand. I say do then do the session for wanting closure and to show you kept showing up despite it all if that's the goal.

 

[maylurker]

I know now that if I'm honest, the only place I'll end up is in a ward and forcibly treated

thats really an unfortunate and unfair destiny in modern healthcare. wish you best and hope something figures out on that appointment

 

[wordsoutb4sumnelsin]

I'm honestly not sure what I'm hoping to accomplish by going to the session. I want to be able to thank my psychologist for her care over the last months, give closure I guess, perhaps just wrap things up and end things so that she knows she couldn't have helped. I know now that if I'm honest, the only place I'll end up is in a ward and forcibly treated. If this happens, it will only break my spirit even more and push me into complete certainty for ctb. honestly, I wish I could just cancel the appointment but since she offered it to me as a last minute appointment for the first day she's back to work and made the time for me, I don't want to disappoint her.

Therapist here...
Man, I'm genuinely here for myself, and ironically planning on the opposite; Starting to get clients referred out so when I ctb, hopefully they are away, don't find out, don't end up hurt, etc. Actually the main reason I'm still here and waiting to go...

Anyways, (as we're usually trained to habituate towards) about you:
So that exactly, it's not about us, it's about you.
But so much about so much you've said/asked is particular to you, your therapist, her training/modalities, your relationship, etc.
That last bit about attending to not disappoint and not wanting to cancel... What's best for you is what's best for you.

Even the intent, plan, means and decision to break confidentiality and involve either family, another resource or the high level resources. This can vary by state, license, training, modality subscriptions, experience, on and on. Personally, before crossing over to this side of the fence, intent tended to be king. I remember arguments about my belief that if people could hang themselves in prison, basically anyone could have "means". And planning can have so many levels of "seriousness", or in some ways could even be helpful to some, at some times... As with so much about us psychologically, SO much can just depend.
Anyways, done plenty of safety plants, tbh to cya. Have had plenty of "assessments" of people. Only time for me was someone who was gonna go home and "probably do it". They said to me straight up. Even then. I was glad my lunch hour was after and I spent it in so many ways trying to help and whatnot. (Tho I only lived in old exclusively pro-life land then. Hadn't connected my "pro-choice" to death outside of "terminal illness" as so many do). Never had done it before or since, but I literally begged to just be able to "feel" like they weren't "gonna go home and do it". This was outpatient btw, and tho not as much, have also worked in inpatient. But anyways cuz of never having actually done it. Training shit only. But got someone else to call cops, I talked to them to make sure they'd be nice, etc. Anyways, a week or weeks later, I got to hear shitty psych ward story I now know how common they are. But was proud/thankful the person decided to come back and see me after. Again, different places in life I' had seen/experienced back then tho. Again, was "on the other side of the fence"

Anyways all this to say that, ideally, if a "good therapeutic relationship", a "good therapist", etc. You should be able to in some way talk.
Which takes me to the frank other part, that frankly, kinda sounds like maybe there could be "a chance to live" (if we were irl id do the finger quotes, funny "serious" voice... idk, feels natural but idk how it translates in writing. lol) for you.
TBH ya sound young, and concerns sounds real wordly. And not just wordly, but local. As in your personal life vs wordly shit like capitalism, being a human, being a living being... Like if we could just manipulate and shift the pieces in your life, like good grades, school's easy, fulfilling. Friends. Family... On and on... Idk. Don't wanna "be therapist" here, but tbh I gotta compare:
I got here, yes, first through depression (but tied to a specific life moment). But getting to anhedonia, I started evaluating my life. I genuinely got to a place of realizing I've done/lived all I wanted. Been happy, had love, fun on and on. "Been there, done that" has been the phrase that keeps coming to the mind that now just keeps wanting out. Keeps feeling done. Don't want to stick around consuming and producing anymore. I can't imagine any more rewards I truly want. Truly nothing I can imagine. Other than having to go out involving lies, hiding, a violent means... This is the only shit I hate. If I could, as old people do, get to say bye to people genuinely, with love, get to CHOOSE to go out, peacefully, painlessly, no worries... But I don't want to stick around for some unknown amount of years, keep gambling on life. To hope I can pay for life, not get ill, in pain, SO many of the punishments that can mean SO much when one can't see reward anymore...

So again, I'm in the kinda opposite place of sticking through these holidays to, lol, then, same as you; Just want to stick around to say bye. To not hurt others. The thought of just not showing up to scheduled sessions, for people to have to find out their therapist ctb... Literally the reason (other than some for family to not have it happen this time of year too) I'm writing this I think.

I guess fuck it, I'll continue with the honesty that if one requests ending services, at least for outpatient that is one's right and generally therapists are just gonna respect that. Frankly, I'd blame money, time or sumn. Even if I just did a safety plan with someone, even if technically some internal concern, I wouldn't have reason/right/etc. to pursure. But guess I gotta end with, again, at least consider how if the "pieces" of your life could be changed, re-aranged, etc... If we give you money, mansion, travel, safety, love, friends, on and on... Then?... And just another reminder that there is SO much variety to us therapists. Again, modalities, education, expereience. Literally the variety that can exist with us humans doesn't stop when we enter a profession...

Anyways, feel like I did a TMI. Hopefully something for someone.