Discussion For antinatalists, do your views change you relationships with those with children?

[Forever Sleep]

I haven't actually interacted or been around former good friends that now have children, for years. I don't hold personal bad feelings towards individual parents but then, I wonder if my growing anti-natilism vibe would start to seep into conversations etc. Do you find this at all?

I suppose just generally, I try to avoid people because I'm sure both my ideation, hatred of life and anti-natilism would start to surface. Not that it would make any difference to their life or choices but, I expect it wouldn't be too pleasant. Plus, it becomes too much of a red flag.

I forget sometimes how abnormal it is. I briefly worked somewhere where the people were absolutely lovely. Most were parents or, at least had partners. I suddenly remembered it was kind of weird to not want either. I got into a weirder place where I felt I had to justify it. I couldn't feasibly say: 'I f*cking hate life and I think it's unreasonable to bring a child here.' So, I just covered with some other lame excuse. It felt weird though, to feel the need to defend the decision.

What do you do though? If you do hold strong anti-natalist views. Do you cover them, just avoid people, or are you honest? Even if it risks distancing friendships?

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

I'm lucky to not have any friends or be in the age range where people start asking about children (although I think that's fallen out of fashion societally anyway). But I do notice that I've developed a bit of resentment towards parents of young children who I see out in public; my instinctive response whenever I see a child now is "That poor child" or "You shouldn't be having kids." I don't actually blame anyone for choosing to have kids, of course, and I recognize that this resentment is irrational, so I would never voice these sentiments. Even if I did, I assume it would quickly cause discomfort and confusion. One of those topics that people are very touchy about.

 

[SchizoGymnast]

I'm not anti-natalist, but I have serious anger towards capable parents getting pregnant over and over again rather than adopt or foster. I think it's beyond unintelligent and selfish and I have a hard time respecting them.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I'm not anti-natalist, but I have serious anger towards capable parents getting pregnant over and over again rather than adopt or foster. I think it's beyond unintelligent and selfish and I have a hard time respecting them.

That's an interesting perspective. I have so much respect for people who adopt and foster (provides they do a good job of course.) Either children or animals.

I suppose I feel more your way about animals. Seeing as no genetics are involved. Maybe pet owners want animals from when they're young or, less behavioural issues- if there have been problems so- they go to breeders but, I just find it sad that so many animals remain unadopted. I'd hope that if I had the right environment, money and time for a pet, (plus, that I wasn't suicidal,) I'd adopt.

I think it's a little tricky with children though. It brings something interesting to light though. I'm not convinced that parenting is appealing to all because it means supporting an individual to flourish. I think for a lot- the appeal is because it's a part of them and their partner. Which is partly narcissistic and, partly because they want to replicate a part of their partner I guess. So- selfish ultimately. They want a part of their partner to live on to love- in case they die.

I think it's a huge commitment and drain to support a child though. I think a lot of people need a bigger incentive to do it. In terms of- it's more likely they'll love them maybe. Plus, there's the natural urge to reproduce your own genes. Is it so instinctual to help another person's genes thrive? It's certainly the moral think to do but, is it so appealing?

Both my own parents and friends of mine struggled to have children. Both actually ended up with them eventually but, both didn't want to adopt. I don't know that I do really judge them for that. If they knew they wouldn't be able to give their all- should they actually try?

I've experienced growing up with step relations. Having to pretend we're a happy family- when we're not. Maybe some people aren't emotionally available enough to take on another person's child.

Of course, me being more anti-natilist, my hope would be that that poor thing hadn't been born to begin with!

 

[Permanoir]

Being an antinatalist has not significantly affected my relationships with people who have children (I've not reached the age where there's a societal expectation to have children so all my friends don't have children yet), but it has had a deep impact on how I relate to my parents. I became an antinatalist at 15, and I guess that change in perspective reshaped how I see them, as well as how I navigate the emotional reality of knowing they will experience grief after I die by suicide.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Being an antinatalist has not significantly affected my relationships with people who have children (I've not reached the age where there's a societal expectation to have children so all my friends don't have children yet), but it has had a deep impact on how I relate to my parents. I became an antinatalist at 15, and I guess that change in perspective reshaped how I see them, as well as how I navigate the emotional reality of knowing they will experience grief after I die by suicide.

I have a feeling I would actually be able to bury my opinions if I saw them again. Plus, if I was around their children, I'd give my best effort to come across reasonably happy I hope- hence I avoid it! I do wonder though. Seeing as some friends, I used to talk to about all my worries and problems in life. Now that the fundamental problem is being alive, I'm not sure how I'd dodge that.

Yeah, it's more complicated now with my parents. For me, it's more like there are various levels. There's the surface level that tries to do my duty as a daughter and, respects what they did as parents. There's also a deep level that does genuinely love them and, not want to hurt them. But then, there's a much trickier layer which is full of resentment. That tends to bubble up when they nag about stuff. It just wants to scream that I don't even want to be alive and so- don't push it.

 

[darksouls]

because I dont have any friends I cant lose any
people like me who have decided against having children are socially unacceptable in Germany
I have often been verbally attacked like a criminal in my life
the older I got the more I was pressured by other people especially doctors to bear children
it is the entire German society that is perverse and disturbed

 

[Forever Sleep]

because I dont have any friends I cant lose any
people like me who have decided against having children are socially unacceptable in Germany
I have often been verbally attacked like a criminal in my life
the older I got the more I was pressured by other people especially doctors to bear children
it is the entire German society that is perverse and disturbed

That's frightening actually. I'm pretty lucky really that all I've mostly received puzzlement. But yeah, I imagine there must be countries where there is enormous pressure to procreate.

I watched a YouTube video the other day that said the UK is approaching a crisis point because more people are living to older age and more people are choosing or simply can't afford to have children.

It's weird when you realise things could be much worse and autonomy even more restricted.

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

Of course my views changed but not because of that alone, they are also ultra religious, ultra nationalist and vote far right bastards, why should I care for these apes? get the fuck out of my sight already.

 

[quins]

I remember throwing about some choosy comments to some relatives with children, partly out of contempt partly out of jealousy. As if having children were some universal milestone which afforded you even more currency with the "pro-life" herd, and so God and Biological Destiny and all the rest. I don't think they're "bad people", just stupid, incorrigible dregs. Though if I had "found" a wife in my thirties I'm sure I'd feel differently...

 

[Forever Sleep]

I remember throwing about some choosy comments to some relatives with children, partly out of contempt partly out of jealousy. As if having children were some universal milestone which afforded you even more currency with the "pro-life" herd, and so God and Biological Destiny and all the rest. I don't think they're "bad people", just stupid, incorrigible dregs. Though if I had "found" a wife in my thirties I'm sure I'd feel differently...

That's true for me too to be fair. It wouldn't have been impossible for me to consider having children in my twenties. I think by my thirties, anti-natilism was starting to feel the proper course of action for me personally. I'm actually kind of relieved I was too ugly to attract anyone now! I reckon we'd all be suffering right now otherwise.

I hope I would keep my trap shut in front of friends with children. I just don't know in general now though. Still, anti-natilism and life being shit skirts too close to ideation really to talk about openly. I doubt I'll have to though. I can't really see myself seeing friends again.

 

[foreverfalling]

I had an encounter with an acquaintance who seemed to want to set me up with a partner and basically telling me that I need to find one. I wasn't very interested so I tried to brush it off nicely without directly revealing my views. He started talking about the meaning of life and that having a child gave him meaning to life when he didn't have any, and that I should find mine too. My first thoughts were like mentioned in replies above, that having children for this reason is very selfish, and just started the whole cycle again of creating someone that needed to painfully find their own meaning. By the end of the encounter I felt like he was doing this to justify his own life choices, and me going against it, not even directly, put tension in the relationship. Like I was shining a light on something I shouldn't be.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I had an encounter with an acquaintance who seemed to want to set me up with a partner and basically telling me that I need to find one. I wasn't very interested so I tried to brush it off nicely without directly revealing my views. He started talking about the meaning of life and that having a child gave him meaning to life when he didn't have any, and that I should find mine too. My first thoughts were like mentioned in replies above, that having children for this reason is very selfish, and just started the whole cycle again of creating someone that needed to painfully find their own meaning. By the end of the encounter I felt like he was doing this to justify his own life choices, and me going against it, not even directly, put tension in the relationship. Like I was shining a light on something I shouldn't be.

I suppose for some, it can contribute to making them very good parents- if so much of their meaning is wrapped up in the child. I agree though, I think it can also be troubling. Especially if it's a hope it will make them happier. Or, regulate their emotions. Again, maybe it's ok if they successfully manage it but, what if they can't? A child shouldn't be expected to be the parent effectively. They're not some living crutch. They're a helpless being full of their own needs who has just been brought here without their say so.

Too much dependency on the child may also mean they are unwilling to really let them go and live their own life- right into adulthood. I've seen that in my own family.

Plus, I feel it also establishes a co-dependency. Even if a parent is very supportive of us becoming independent, we are emotionally bound to them. We very likely feel emotionally responsible for them so- as in many of our cases here, we're simply not free in so many ways. We don't want to do things to hurt them so, quite often, we won't follow our own best needs.

That can include choice of career, partner, where we live, what religion we follow. But, here especially, it pertains to suicide. Some people will end up stuck here suffering because they can't bare to hurt their parents like that. So, they can't live (peacefully, painlessly) and they can't die either. In the worst case scenario, it's like a trap with Stockholm Syndrome thrown in. Obviously, that won't be even the majorities experience but, it's still horrible that some go through it.

A college therapist once started to go down the same route though with me. Thinking about it, I think maybe that was the first time I really confronted my anti-natilist side. I thought- why on earth is this person likely going to encourage me to have a child who will also almost definitely suffer? Or, watch me suffer? Or, we'll suffer together? Why would I want that for my child? Maybe it wasn't that though. Maybe they were trying to establish just how much I hated life. Or, what I might want from life maybe. I actually remember feeling almost morally repulsed though.