Discussion CTB is it brave or do people say it's cowardice?

[A_Spartan_Dead]

I don't think when people say it's cowardice it's right when they don't know the circumstances others are in.
I'm open to discussing viewpoints on this, without of course promoting CTB in any way, since it's a personal choice.

 

[behindtheveil]

it's a personal choice and nothing to do with cowardice or courage. Like you said when we don't know someone's circumstances how and who are we to judge them.

 

[badatparties]

It can be both, just depends on the situation. But yeah, it takes a little balls imo. Most people are scared shitless of death.

 

[Unsure and Useless]

Whether CTB is "brave" or "cowardly" is heavily based on the circumstances the CTB was executed in as well as the individual catching the bus. Overall, CTB is neither; it simply is. We just assign our own interpretations of things onto the action

For instance, there are cases where abhorrent criminals take their lives before they are to be judged in order to escape the consequences of their actions. People would argue that's cowardly because one is ensuring that they won't ever live to experience the full scope of the punishment they deserve. However, for a terminally ill patient, taking one's life might be seen as an act of bravery since they're facing their inevitable conclusion head on. A pretty bland answer all things considered, but that's generally how I view it

Personally, in the context of this server, I think CTB is an act of bravery—though mental fortitude feels like a more apt term to describe it. There are already tales of SI ruining everything, sometimes to potentially devastating results, so one has to truly come to terms with their end and what they're doing to themself. And that's only preparing yourself mentally. The several amount of posts on the SN, Night-Night, etc. megathreads are proof enough that governing bodies have excelled at going out of their way to remove any way out

If you want to go out using SN, good luck trying to find a supplier, and even then, there's still a possibility that you'll get welfare checked by the police. Unless you have proof that you're a hardcore enthusiast of curing meat, the odds of you being seen as someone who needs to be sent to a ward are huge since CTB via SN is a common thing. As for the night night method, while easy, it's efficacy is dubious. Checking the most recent posts give that away easily, and it was put into even more questioning when someone sent a wpd vid of a dude allegedly going out this way and taking ~7 minutes to go out. (Theoretically, you're supposed to be out by half a minute at most.)

All this to say, to see this seemingly unsurmountable challenge and still attempt to CTB regardless, that takes a lot of bravery

 

[tarnishedstoner]

Being brave is when you overcome the fear. Being coward is when you run away from it.
Depending on your circumstances, if you're doing it despite you being afraid, you're brave. If you're doing it to escape some kind of fear, you're coward.
Though I don't think these judgements mean anything. Emotions are complicated and even though they are useful; are not always the sole signal you should follow while making a decision.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think it depends on a person's view of life. People view it as cowardly presumably because they think adversity in life needs to be fought and overcome but- why- necessarily?

There can be reasons why of course. A parent or grandparent in chronic pain may choose to hang on in order to still support their children/ grand children. I do admire the bravery in doing that. What if that person has no one though? Or, the people in their life caused their suffering to begin with? Do they deserve the same loyalty?

They may also have personal values in life- perhaps religious views. Perhaps a burning ambition still to achieve something. Again though- not everyone has that motivation. Why should we feel obliged to live by someone else's values?

So, I think the view it is brave to live should depend on how we view life itself. So- the same action can- I would argue be deemed brave or simply stupid. Say someone leaps into a lion's enclosure. They are risking severe bodily harm doing that so- why did they do it? If it was to rescue a toddler who fell in- people would call that brave. If it was to retrieve their phone- people would call them dumb and irresponsible. So- surely the motivation to endure something difficult and potentially painful defines how we rate how brave it is.

As another example- is it cowardly to resign a chess game because you know you can't win with the options now available to you? Isn't it more logical to resign- when you know you've already lost?

The problem with living and dying is- we can't seem to help but poke our noses into other people's lives. We somehow feel we have the right to decide on how worthwhile their life could be.

The genuine problem I suppose is if we are being influenced by a (debatably) curable illness- say depression- although, I wonder just how treatable it always is. In that case, I suppose there are grounds to worry a person may not have an accurate perspective of their life and prospects.

But generally- I'd argue a goal has to be deemed worthwhile in order to suffer great harships to achieve it. In that case- we may call that brave. If it doesn't seem worth the effort though- that looks more like stupidity/ compliance to me.

That's another argument I suppose. Asides from how physically frightening suicide is. Surely, it requires bravery to bring about death- the one thing we are programmed to avoid. But, in terms of societal, familial, religious values- suicide is an act of rebellion. It takes courage to rebel against the things we've been taught. So- from my perspective at least, I think suicide takes a lot of courage.

I also tend to think that people who label it cowardly for one- probably haven't truly considered doing it. Do they truly think they have the guts to jump off a bridge say? I also think that the reason they think it's cowardly is because they clearly must have enough belief that life is something precious/ worthwhile to fight for. With that attitude- how can they even begin to understand a person who experiences life as something largely or entirely worthless?

Would they honestly fight so hard for sonething they deemed worthless? Perhaps they should try. Preferably something that caused discomfort/ suffering- maybe climb Everest unprepared. See how quickly they would decide it felt reasonable for them to quit. We surely need a reason to suffer, otherwise- why should we?

 

[zdeweilx]

I don't think when people say it's cowardice it's right when they don't know the circumstances others are in.
I'm open to discussing viewpoints on this, without of course promoting CTB in any way, since it's a personal choice.

In certain cultures, CTB is seen as the ultimate act of bravery. Think Japan for example
In the West, it's slightly different because most pro-life NPCs are narcissistic PoS.

 

[A_Spartan_Dead]

Well if I may boldly state my opinion (mods please don't ban me on this), I'm of the belief that it's very brave and that it's not cowardice. It's brave to not want to be in a situation where you are forced:
- to fight everyone for everything;
- to not have any attachments like pets, hobbies, books, etc,
- to have to move around from place to place, while owning nothing;
- to become homeless at any point;
A refusal to give in to suffering, slavery and control. Overcoming SI is not weakness.

If you want to go out using SN, good luck trying to find a supplier, and even then, there's still a possibility that you'll get welfare checked by the police. Unless you have proof that you're a hardcore enthusiast of curing meat, the odds of you being seen as someone who needs to be sent to a ward are huge since CTB via SN is a common thing. As for the night night method, while easy, it's efficacy is dubious. Checking the most recent posts give that away easily, and it was put into even more questioning when someone sent a wpd vid of a dude allegedly going out this way and taking ~7 minutes to go out. (Theoretically, you're supposed to be out by half a minute at most.)

All this to say, to see this seemingly unsurmountable challenge and still attempt to CTB regardless, that takes a lot of bravery

As someone from Australia (at least in my state) I completely agree: it's impossible to get SN here, or chemical components and gear, even rope is now coated and short; only way is to potentially be part of a business that has access. It's why I'm starting to think desperate..
If I can ask, what's night-night?

 

[A_Spartan_Dead]

In certain cultures, CTB is seen as the ultimate act of bravery. Think Japan for example
In the West, it's slightly different because most pro-life NPCs are narcissistic PoS.

Would they honestly fight so hard for sonething they deemed worthless? Perhaps they should try. Preferably something that caused discomfort/ suffering- maybe climb Everest unprepared. See how quickly they would decide it felt reasonable for them to quit. We surely need a reason to suffer, otherwise- why should we?

Very much agree with both of these. CTB is perhaps the ultimate example of bravery depending on the circumstances, like Seppuku. Much akin to Spartans and Thespians going to Thermopylae in 480BC, knowing they're never coming back.

 

[Jisatsu]

It's always going to be a choice made by someone whose at the edge , does it really matter if it cowardice or if it's brave?

 

[TimingOut]

Well if I may boldly state my opinion (mods please don't ban me on this), I'm of the belief that it's very brave and that it's not cowardice. It's brave to not want to be in a situation where you are forced:
- to fight everyone for everything;
- to not have any attachments like pets, hobbies, books, etc,
- to have to move around from place to place, while owning nothing;
- to become homeless at any point;
A refusal to give in to suffering, slavery and control. Overcoming SI is not weakness.

As someone from Australia (at least in my state) I completely agree: it's impossible to get SN here, or chemical components and gear, even rope is now coated and short; only way is to potentially be part of a business that has access. It's why I'm starting to think desperate..
If I can ask, what's night-night?

The "night-night" method mega thread.

Hey everyone, Been talking to a lot of people in the chat and trying to explain this method, and one user wanted me to make a post about it, so here goes everything. We're going after a classic idea of using a blood choke, except, it will be against ourselves. In the privacy of our own...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Whether CTB is "brave" or "cowardly" is heavily based on the circumstances the CTB was executed in as well as the individual catching the bus. Overall, CTB is neither; it simply is. We just assign our own interpretations of things onto the action

For instance, there are cases where abhorrent criminals take their lives before they are to be judged in order to escape the consequences of their actions. People would argue that's cowardly because one is ensuring that they won't ever live to experience the full scope of the punishment they deserve. However, for a terminally ill patient, taking one's life might be seen as an act of bravery since they're facing their inevitable conclusion head on. A pretty bland answer all things considered, but that's generally how I view it

Personally, in the context of this server, I think CTB is an act of bravery—though mental fortitude feels like a more apt term to describe it. There are already tales of SI ruining everything, sometimes to potentially devastating results, so one has to truly come to terms with their end and what they're doing to themself. And that's only preparing yourself mentally. The several amount of posts on the SN, Night-Night, etc. megathreads are proof enough that governing bodies have excelled at going out of their way to remove any way out

If you want to go out using SN, good luck trying to find a supplier, and even then, there's still a possibility that you'll get welfare checked by the police. Unless you have proof that you're a hardcore enthusiast of curing meat, the odds of you being seen as someone who needs to be sent to a ward are huge since CTB via SN is a common thing. As for the night night method, while easy, it's efficacy is dubious. Checking the most recent posts give that away easily, and it was put into even more questioning when someone sent a wpd vid of a dude allegedly going out this way and taking ~7 minutes to go out. (Theoretically, you're supposed to be out by half a minute at most.)

All this to say, to see this seemingly unsurmountable challenge and still attempt to CTB regardless, that takes a lot of bravery

Do you have the link of the wpd video you mentioned?

 

[A_Spartan_Dead]

It's always going to be a choice made by someone whose at the edge , does it really matter if it cowardice or if it's brave?

Well, I hear what you're saying and it doesn't necessarily matter; but I'm of the belief that a person choosing to CTB should be comfortable that the choice they're making isn't judged as something it's not.

 

[FuneralCry]

It's so disgusting to me when they say it's cowardly wishing to escape from all future unnecessary suffering and torture in this existence I just always saw as a mistake, for me ceasing to exist would solve everything and is the solution to what I see as the true problem which is existence itself.

For me only non-existence is positive and is the only peace, all I hope for is an escape from the evil of existence, I see it as an abomination to be conscious burdened with this existence capable of suffering to unlimited extents, I could never see any point and value to prolonging the futile suffering of existing for as long as possible especially as it all just leads to decay and death anyway, I only envy those who no longer suffer in this existence, all I see as beautiful is the peace of non-existence where all is gone and forgotten.

 

[Unsure and Useless]

Do you have the link of the wpd video you mentioned?

Video of a successful suicide attempt using the night-night suicide method

This is the only video on the internet documenting a successful suicide attempt using the night-night method. Link: https://videos.watchpeopledie.tv/16691075561451187.mp4 He tied a buckle thing around his neck and choked for 5-10 minutes before stopping moving. Please note that this method is...

sanctioned-suicide.net

I found it while looking into the night-night method. The guy streamed it, so if you aren't interested in people gawking at someone CTB, then I recommend not watching it

 

[LonelyPrince]

Everyone is afraid of death, the ones who ctb surpass that fear due to the immense suffering and circumstances they face. Forcing a way out through death doesn't seem cowardly to me, if anything it takes balls of steel. Non-suicidal people will say the opposite, but that's just because they themselves are afraid of death.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Killing myself is very brave

I would have to overcome many fears and si, and decades of brainwashing

It's very brave to kill yourself. Takes a lot of courage.

Very brave to shoot yourself in the head and explode your own head

Imo no one is taught how the brain works

Every experience is rewiring your brain by a little bit

Experience-driven brain plasticity: beyond the synapse - PMC

The brain is remarkably responsive to its interactions with the environment, and its morphology is altered by experience in measurable ways. Histological examination of the brains of animals exposed to either a complex (‘enriched’) environment or ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Imo They say suicide is cowardly to keep you in the prison as a slave and under control

 

[Unlucky777]

No matter what the circumstances are, it's a very brave thing to do because we're WIRED biologically to survive. It's not an easy decision, and it's very a very complex thing to even consider. There's the fear aspect, among many other considerations like what if you fail?

 

[Gangrel]

how is it not brave, it's hardest thing one can do since it ends their life