Discussion Capitalism & suicide

[fenty]

I'm not pro-suicide at all but I think it's so important to discuss why people aren't allowed to debate about suicide without being seen as a "threat" or basically equivalent to being pro-murder.

I think the main reason behind this is because capitalism benefits so greatly from having a pro-life stance. You can see a similar argument in abortions. Historically, through most of history, suicide has been seen as courageous and honourable. It was for soldiers (Ancient Rome, Greece & Japan) and people trying to escape capture (slaves & people captured in war). Even in Shakespearean times, suicide was more neutrally viewed than it is now. No one called Romeo and Juliet selfish even though their suicides were impulsive and for reasons most people would describe as "selfish" today (love/heartbreak).

The anti-suicide narrative is very recent and it thrives in a society where someone else profits of your existence. Even people in institutions or on their deathbed (in countries where euthanasia is not permitted) can generate income by making jobs for people in healthcare.
Capitalism benefits from having cheap labour in the masses, to support the upper class. There's no billionaire in the world that has become rich without exploiting other people. Whether through tax fraud, or low wages/unsafe working conditions (Amazon). Even if they haven't done anything explicitly illegal, most people would agree that sweatshops and factories are immoral.


I'm not pro-suicide because I think most suicidal people are suicidal because of their situation. Oftentimes I feel like a different person when I travel to a different country where I could escape my abusive family. People say it's a "permanent solution to a non-permanent problem" but so many problems ARE permanent: racism, sexism, transphobia & homophobia, being in a lower class/caste, body dysmorphia and lifelong physical or mental problems. Going to a healthcare professional won't make you suddenly white or fix your chronic illness so it's a permanent issue. Usually is permanent issues (or at least multiple years) that causes people to be suicidal. It's as out of proportion compared to a lot of problems as people treat it to be. Even if you do get out of such a situation, you have to deal with the lifelong trauma of having been in that situation that caused you to be suicidal. Therapy cannot "fix" any issues, only help you to cope/accept them. However you can accept these problems and still feel suicidal.

The only reason governments want people not to commit suicide is because they need soldiers, workers, taxpayers etc. Most people have taken the narrative that suicidal people are "irrational/weak/sinful" (any negative attribute imo) and now have demonised the discussion around the right to die. By extension, SS has been demonised despite it having a recovery section and providing actual support without demonising suicide.

 

[BradGuy123]

What an intelligent and well-thought out post. I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

[Galam]

I think you have a good unterstanding of the system. In germany it is similar, they need pigs and we are their pigs. I was caged into asylum and traumatized there just for their money. They stigmatized me as mentally ill similar to what they did with 'witches' or lesbians, other lower class women in nazi germany. The mainstream never changed and they breed even more than ever.

Valerie Solanas and other radical feminists who are dead, wrote about this before 2000 and since then nothing has changed. Many women are traitors to their own kind, especially the middle-class and elite-class women. They are very dull and women like me were always sabotaged by them too. I never had any health care and become no welfare anymore and become homeless because of such a dumb pickme that bullies me. And the other organizations are corrupt too here, they are filled with those dull hateful bches. I was sometimes treated better by men, they were nicer. It is very sad, because I always wanted female friendship and own living places for lesbians but this isn't possible with women who sabotage and kill women like me.

We will never reach a better society with pickmes in power positions, and general breeders and the whole money system. Many don't invest in ethical steps and many don't understand that we shouldn't give money so much importance. Ants don't need money to help each other. Sadly many humans want to compete.

I was always cut off from eveything (good social contacts, good jobs, good environment, traveling, love, food, events) just because they disliked my body, they always said I am ugly, slow, dumb and so nobody helped me. I am now 30 and was always alone. I was bullied since Kindergarten and now the bulliyng is simply discrimination (lookism, ableism, misogyny). The real bad thing is, that people who are cruel and dumb rule over the system and build it. Not the weak, ethical people.

This is the reason why I like outcasts who start to revolt with gun fire or similar. Like Audrey Hale or this transwoman or the german woman from Hamburg (she was abused in asylum and started to attack strangers on a train station with a knife). They don't attack innocent people as long as they attack breeders and their spawn imo. Normal people are ill. I don't have a good life but I don't want to be them either tbh. I was born as a ethical human, a masculiner woman with some disabilities and vegan, antinatalistic and lesbian-centering values. I was never competetive, and always wanted to support solidarity and altruism. It's sad that humans like me are oppressed by parasites. The only bad thing in my life was not me, but the people around me.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I entirely agree with you. The only thing I'd add is that suicide isn't usually welcomed within our family units either. Most especially by parents. So, while I agree- it benefits those in power to have their wage slaves alive, they're not exactly up against strong opposition. Parents will mostly cling on to their offspring wherever possible. Plus, keep popping out more baby citizens as meat for the grinder.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

Capitalism will need less and less working slaves because more and more will be done by machines and algorithims. Only consuments are needed but they cannot buy anything as they have no jobs. The capitalists have to give their products for free. Or in other words, capitalism is going to abolish itself.

Only fiew very high scilled people are needed in the future. I guess they will be payed by the right to have children whilst the superfluous rest is not allowed to reproduce. Finally the planet has to be saved. So suicide of the useless will be apprecheated and we can only hope that it will not be enforced.

 

[fenty]

Also to clarify I don't think that without capitalism people would be okay with suicide just that it would be seen as neutral/on a case to case basis. Maybe it would even have some cultural value and be a part of more traditions.

 

[Ligottian]

In the US, socialism is pretty much a dirty word.

 

[Liseli]

Adding to that I also believe it's partly due to moral guilt aswell. People don't like having their loved one dead, because it also takes away part of their social network. Cheap labour's definitely does play a role too. But also us all being connected all the time makes it easier for hate to spread. I mean it is kinda weird that we have better access to food then ever but the suicide rates rise

 

[NellyGoes]

capitalism is going to abolish itself

Very interesting perspective. I kinda hope for this to happen soon — capitalism and also entire humanity to destroy itself. It will be long after I'm gone (unless I come back…:/) and it will be painful as hell. But this planet needs a hard reset I think. Best if humans never get to populate this planet (or any other) ever again. Let animal and plant life thrive as they did before we came along.

People don't like having their loved one dead, because it also takes away part of their social network.

To that I may say. I understand the pain of losing a loved one. It's the biggest pain there is in my opinion and it's real fucking pain and torment. (It varies from person to person ofc). I do advocate for every adult's right to have autonomy over their own body and life. But I also understand that suicides can leave real traumatic pain and also create a ripple effect of that pain and trauma (loved ones may ctb themselves as a result). More hurt people in the world are not good for anyone.
That's why I believe legal euthanasia is so crucial to have. Loved ones can learn to understand and accept. Still not easy, but easier than with a traumatic loss I believe.

 

[Bootleg Astolfo]

True capitalism would try to make money out of our deaths !

 

[katara]

Ya I think American capitalism is genuinely evil. We have more homeless than anywhere else. American culture is very toxic. If you struggle it's your own fault, pull yourself up by your bootstraps and all this bullshit. I feel like I live in a third world country sometime. I wish I could've been born someplace better. Scandinavian countries seem so nice, like heaven compared to here. I think this is why assisted suicide will never come to America, too many ppl would die and these asshole politicians in power refuse to acknowledge how terrible they are. They don't want dead bodies bc then they'll have to face the statistics of what they are doing, that's why Luigi was such a big deal. They hate having to face the reality that what they are doing is pure evil. And people who pretend America is the best are just privileged idiots.

 

[claviceps.purpurea]

Very interesting perspective. I kinda hope for this to happen soon — capitalism and also entire humanity to destroy itself. It will be long after I'm gone (unless I come back…:/) and it will be painful as hell. But this planet needs a hard reset I think. Best if humans never get to populate this planet (or any other) ever again. Let animal and plant life thrive as they did before we came along.


To that I may say. I understand the pain of losing a loved one. It's the biggest pain there is in my opinion and it's real fucking pain and torment. (It varies from person to person ofc). I do advocate for every adult's right to have autonomy over their own body and life. But I also understand that suicides can leave real traumatic pain and also create a ripple effect of that pain and trauma (loved ones may ctb themselves as a result). More hurt people in the world are not good for anyone.
That's why I believe legal euthanasia is so crucial to have. Loved ones can learn to understand and accept. Still not easy, but easier than with a traumatic loss I believe.

I totally agree with u. Loosing a person that u love is an unspeakable pain that none should feel in this life.
It'd be better to legalize euthanasia providing an easier access to people who struggle with mental illnesses and issues, but unfo it's possible in few countries like Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Spain and Colombia. Btw, the stigma is too big and hard to erase. that's why, as a user said before, in our cultural background suicide is seen as a selfish and immoral act, without considering the complexity behind this.

I'm quite sure that if we'd have the possibilty to talk more about these topics and common people would change the way they think about suicidal and suicide, probably many people could find more help and support as we find in this website without feeling judged or guilty for this.

 

[DirtCommie]

I'm not pro-suicide at all but I think it's so important to discuss why people aren't allowed to debate about suicide without being seen as a "threat" or basically equivalent to being pro-murder.

I think the main reason behind this is because capitalism benefits so greatly from having a pro-life stance. You can see a similar argument in abortions. Historically, through most of history, suicide has been seen as courageous and honourable. It was for soldiers (Ancient Rome, Greece & Japan) and people trying to escape capture (slaves & people captured in war). Even in Shakespearean times, suicide was more neutrally viewed than it is now. No one called Romeo and Juliet selfish even though their suicides were impulsive and for reasons most people would describe as "selfish" today (love/heartbreak).

The anti-suicide narrative is very recent and it thrives in a society where someone else profits of your existence. Even people in institutions or on their deathbed (in countries where euthanasia is not permitted) can generate income by making jobs for people in healthcare.
Capitalism benefits from having cheap labour in the masses, to support the upper class. There's no billionaire in the world that has become rich without exploiting other people. Whether through tax fraud, or low wages/unsafe working conditions (Amazon). Even if they haven't done anything explicitly illegal, most people would agree that sweatshops and factories are immoral.


I'm not pro-suicide because I think most suicidal people are suicidal because of their situation. Oftentimes I feel like a different person when I travel to a different country where I could escape my abusive family. People say it's a "permanent solution to a non-permanent problem" but so many problems ARE permanent: racism, sexism, transphobia & homophobia, being in a lower class/caste, body dysmorphia and lifelong physical or mental problems. Going to a healthcare professional won't make you suddenly white or fix your chronic illness so it's a permanent issue. Usually is permanent issues (or at least multiple years) that causes people to be suicidal. It's as out of proportion compared to a lot of problems as people treat it to be. Even if you do get out of such a situation, you have to deal with the lifelong trauma of having been in that situation that caused you to be suicidal. Therapy cannot "fix" any issues, only help you to cope/accept them. However you can accept these problems and still feel suicidal.

The only reason governments want people not to commit suicide is because they need soldiers, workers, taxpayers etc. Most people have taken the narrative that suicidal people are "irrational/weak/sinful" (any negative attribute imo) and now have demonised the discussion around the right to die. By extension, SS has been demonised despite it having a recovery section and providing actual support without demonising suicide.

...Bruh! Where have you been all my life? You and I are thinking of the same things . Thanks for writing this

Sorry for any pain that youve gone or are going through
Ya after 30 years of near homelessness(well technically as Im typing this I actually am homeless. Also my mom was homeless when I was born) I am sure that my eternal sadness only stems from living in a condition of eternally dirt broke. I think the studies and video prove me right. EVERY.SINGLE.ONE of my current problems would be solved with just having enough money lol. It has also been found that rates of depression scale with how low your income is too.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.12.04.23299380v1.full ,

I also really like this video because there is a quote that the dude says in the video that goes along the lines of:

"One of the biggest successes of neoliberalism was convincing most people that depression can ONLY result from deranged internal chemical imbalances rather than as normal reaction to external world shittiness lol. For a lot of ' depressed' people youre probably not even depressed at all ! There is the possibility that your body and brain are just reacting to a fucked world where there are some war mongering, greedy , lazy people ( like suharto, musk, george bush, ibn mohammad , modi, trump, etc... ) who have crazy excesses of resources, respect, and wealth. Meanwhile a decent, peaceful , hard worker such as yourself has to scrape by with slave wages and practical homelessness. It is not that 'CliNiCAl dEpREsSiOn DoesNt ExIst', its quite the oppositr clearly does exist and capitalism has shown time and again that it can make depression far worse, its just that sooome people are having a completely normal depressed reaction to unfair inequities they are beaten up by and see every day...and thats OK. The inequities must be dismantled but their reactions are OK. "

This right here is the quote that I live by↑ There is nothing wrong with feeling like youre angry, depressed, hopeless, whatever negative emotion cause of the easily fixable inequities youre surrounded by and harmed by daily.

ANd then you were talking about therapists I think youre right! There are a dearth of therapists who acknowledge that someone is literally not depressed in clinical terms . Theyre just dirt broke, ostracized and this results in their current sadness....that's it ! lol! I feel that this is by design cause so many therapists would have to acknowledge that " they alone cannot help this depressed person in front of them with clinical methods or drugs but rsther this person can only be helped through systematic changes that gives them human rights that ensure they have access to things to ...well... make them human again . Like a home. And a living wage.And a community that doesnt ostracize them based on how low their income is . And the ability to afford health care or mental health care when they need it. And the ability to afford time off when they need it....That's it!"

Once again thanks got this based truth you just spit!
And also about racism , it still very much exists today https://academic.oup.com/sf/article-abstract/89/3/807/2235576?redirectedFrom=fulltext&login=false , https://web.archive.org/web/2014091...cupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014

And if anyone thinks racism somehow 'magically' stopped existing well the situation of the Palestinians and ROhingya in Myanmar (and well most of the people in Myanmar to be honest seeing as the world's worst famine is happening there and most countries of the 'uNiTeD NatIoNs' clearly dont give a fuck since. the Myanmar people are 'too Brown' to keep alive or 'worry about' ...) proves me right!

And worst of all I cant 'turn myself White' as many racists have probably been wishing I did .And also I have no idea if Ill ever recover from the racism trauma I have experienced. I am sure that many people who are dealing with similar issues also have the same question ...

True capitalism would try to make money out of our deaths !

....lol

have you heard of military conscription? Have you heard of true crime shows and channels? Have you heard of body farms? Have you heard of black market organ salesman!? Have you heard of organ traffickers? Have you heard of human traffickers who dont care if their 'package' arrives alive or deceased? Have you heard of Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib of the Atlantic Council? HAve you heard of the deaths of despair and the drug dealers who sell these drigs that people use to kill themselves? Have ypu heard how often these drug dealers get popped then dropped?

I have ...

True capitalism would try to make money out of our deaths !

....lol

have you heard of military conscription? Have you heard of true crime shows and channels? Have you heard of body farms? Have you heard of black market organ salesman!? Have you heard of organ traffickers? Have you heard of human traffickers who dont care if their 'package' arrives alive or deceased? Have you heard of Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib of the Atlantic Council? HAve you heard of the deaths of despair and the drug dealers who sell these drigs that people use to kill themselves? Have ypu heard how often these drug dealers get popped then dropped? HAve you heard of massive companies like B5 that pour unfathomable amounts of pollutants into you and me? HAve you heard of those mercenaries who literally got paid to fly out to Palestine and help in the massacre occurring there now as I type this?

I have ...

There is profit in almost EVERYTHING in a crapitalistic society. The positive and definitely the negatives . The only question is how genocidally psychopathic are you willing to be?...

 

[fenty]

True capitalism would try to make money out of our deaths !

That's why the whole funeral industry exists. Coffins and funeral services are grossly expensive. The key is making money out of people's death without them realising it and breaking the illusion

 

[DirtCommie]

In the US, socialism is pretty much a dirty word.

canada too....and south korea, new zealand, france, japan, britain, spain, the ukraine, poland, or well any country of the global north too.

Any country that is part of the global north sees that word as a dirty word and any body with common sense knows why. ... Cause if a socialistic government takes hold of any of these countries they would be forced to 1. give up on exploitative modern colonial systems like the IMF and WTO . Theyd also be forced to give up on trade deals that enable unequal exchange with anyone else , and 2. the billionaires of the global north would be forced to pay back reparations to all the people they and their ancestors have stolen from harmed over the past 500 or so years.

And seeing as how billionaires control almost every single political or parliamentary system on the planet today? I doubt that any socialist governments will ever be elected or be taking power anywhere any time soon unless most poor people(and well MOST PEOPLE ARE POOR PEOPLE anyways) become logical and compassionate enough to realize that 1. capitalism is an unfair and genocidal system that will genocide THEM TOO if the right time comes around (just look at what is happening to the Palestinians today, or the Native Americans and Ryukyu and Aīnu in the past...) and 2.that they have to be compassionate towards ALL OTHER HUMANS of peaceful will to deny the continuuation of systems that enable unequal exchanges cause what you give is what you get.If you give no compassion? Others will not give compassion to you either.

United Nations Item 20- A/77/445 DR asked the nations of the planet to take on a New Economic Order that would be more equitable and EVERY. SINGLE. global north country like canada , obviously the usa, the ukraine, finland, 'iSrEaL' (which is actually OCCUPIED PALESTINE) , sweden, france , switzerland , soith korea, etc... rejected this un resolution.... Meanwhile AS FUCKING EXPECTED every country of the GLobal SOuth like Nigeria, Russia, Cuba , The Philippines, Afghanistan, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Libya, Lebanon, Lesotho, Argentina, Brazil, The COngo, North Korea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Egypt, Cambodia , Zambia, Zimbabwe, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Samoa , Pakistan , Oman, Malawi, Fiji, Togo, Mexico, Montenegro, etc.... ALL voted IN FAVOR of this resolution... (and if youre wondering YES most countries and peoples of the planet are part of The Global South. These are the countries that hve been and still today were exploited by colonialism, massacred in many somewhat recognized r unrecognized genocides)

People keep on telling me that humans care and that humans want a more equitable system for all peoples of the world. But I have yet to see any significsnt group of people from the global north put in ANY significant effort to end capitalism.... The only group that ever done such a thing were the Bolsheviks in 1917 and the French during the French Commune.. . no other group of global northerners has ever come close to doing what those people did....The funniest thing is that when a New More Equitable Economic Order js implemented not a single broke, homeless, or disadvantaged person in the global north or SOuth would be forced to give up anything in their lives it is ONLY the billionaires and multi millionaires who have unjustifiable excesses of wealth that they will never completely use who will be impacted by this New Economic Order.... and yet ... most people have shown resistance to bringing aboit a more Equitable Economic System For All, a socialistic economic system would be a good start to this.

It has been estimated that britain stole 45 trillion pounds in resources from India over the course of their colonial rule over the Indians. 45 TRILLION.... (just imagine how much resources and labour was stolen from OTHER nations that were under the boots of their colonial masters....) so of course the billionsires there in the uk dont want to pay a lick of reparations to the Indians or adopt a new economic order. cause they know theyd just end up having the same wealth that most other people have. And you know and I know and anyome with common sense knows that every other billionaire from the global north is thinking about everything I just wrote here THAT is why they always force the politicians they are puppeteering to reject any type of New Economic Order or Reparations lol.



AND THAT is why Im a misanthrope.