Venting Can police come into my home without a warrant for a welfare check when I buy SN?

[LifeIsASadist]

I might just be paranoid but I will say it anyway, I plan to buy SN once I move out of my parents house and considering the US users are having issues with buying SN I am kinda worried about it now because if the police show up to my house for a welfare check I am pretty much fucked.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Good question and I'M not from the US. I don't know about the exact regulation there but imo without a search warrant they are not allowed to enter your home except you let them go inside. In any case, SN is a legal substance they would never get a search warrant.

 

[J&L383]

Exactly, as long as it's a legal substance they wouldn't have any legal reason to search you or detain you.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Depends on the country where you live.

 

[LifeIsASadist]

Depends on the country where you live.

US

 

[maniac116]

Nope!!
They must have a search warrant. And buying a legal product isn't grounds for a search warrant.
In most of the US suicide isn't illegal so again, no grounds for a search warrant.
They can come to your door, like anyone else can but if you're in no distress & tell them all is well then you're fine.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

US

They need a warrant unless they can see something in plain view when you open the door that gives then probable cause. Or, if someone else invites them in the home. Or, if you say something to them such as you're going to harm yourself. Frankly, just don't open the door. They can't break it down. Also, I haven't heard of any US welfare checks. SN is still legal.

 

[grapevoid]

if they cannot reach you and believe you may be in danger they can legally enter your home. Ignoring them will not work. Open your door and tell them you're fine.
In America, police can enter a home for a wellness check if they have a reasonable belief that someone inside is in immediate danger or needs urgent assistance, and they receive no response after knocking on the door; essentially, they can enter without a warrant if they believe a life-threatening situation exists

 

[LifeIsASadist]

if they cannot reach you and believe you may be in danger they can legally enter your home. Ignoring them will not work. Open your door and tell them you're fine.

Can I talk to them through the window instead?

In America, police can enter a home for a wellness check if they have a reasonable belief that someone inside is in immediate danger or needs urgent assistance, and they receive no response after knocking on the door; essentially, they can enter without a warrant if they believe a life-threatening situation exists

 

[grapevoid]

Can I talk to them through the window instead?

I'd imagine that is at the police officers discretion. They may want to SEE you to confirm you are not in danger

 

[needthebus]

if they cannot reach you and believe you may be in danger they can legally enter your home. Ignoring them will not work. Open your door and tell them you're fine.
In America, police can enter a home for a wellness check if they have a reasonable belief that someone inside is in immediate danger or needs urgent assistance, and they receive no response after knocking on the door; essentially, they can enter without a warrant if they believe a life-threatening situation exists

yeah, but they need to actually talk with you to commit you to a facility. they can't do an evaluation if they don't meet with you.

they can legally enter your home without a warrant, but will they actually break down a door if no one is there or if no one answers? plus, if you aren't there, and they break down the door, that could cause you to flee or ctb, so why would they do that? just say nothing, be quiet, put on headphones, don't leave for 6 hours. they won't wait that long, but they might wait an hour or two if it's a mental health person or if it's ambulance people. just stay quiet.

i would just not say anything, not go to the door, not open, not do anything. i don't even know if I'd move because footsteps would let them know someone is there


Yes, if you have been known to have depression and they are concerned you are going to ctb, they could bust down the door to try to find you. But it's just not that likely.

Talking to them, on the other hand, will get you committed if you've ordered anything that can be used to ctb unless you are incredibly suave. There's a psychiatric nurse who has posted on here and says "Oh I just go and talk to them." But if it were me, I'd let them break down that fucking door. Because if they talk to you and decide you need forced treatment, and their decision can be completely fucking arbitrary and no one ever gets sued or punished for hauling people off for forced treatment, then they will lock you up.
if they talk with you through a window, you will definitely be committed. not opening the door, but only talking through a window, seems paranoid. police would go "what are you hiding?" they will then ask you to open the door, you'll say you don't want to, they'll threaten to break down the door, and then you'll open it if you're too fearful

or you can say nothing at all and not get locked up in some miserable degrading place that strips you of all dignity

your choice

 

[LifeIsASadist]

yeah, but they need to actually talk with you to commit you to a facility. they can't do an evaluation if they don't meet with you.

they can legally enter your home without a warrant, but will they actually break down a door if no one is there or if no one answers? plus, if you aren't there, and they break down the door, that could cause you to flee or ctb, so why would they do that? just say nothing, be quiet, put on headphones, don't leave for 6 hours. they won't wait that long, but they might wait an hour or two if it's a mental health person or if it's ambulance people. just stay quiet.

i would just not say anything, not go to the door, not open, not do anything. i don't even know if I'd move because footsteps would let them know someone is there


Yes, if you have been known to have depression and they are concerned you are going to ctb, they could bust down the door to try to find you. But it's just not that likely.

Talking to them, on the other hand, will get you committed if you've ordered anything that can be used to ctb unless you are incredibly suave. There's a psychiatric nurse who has posted on here and says "Oh I just go and talk to them." But if it were me, I'd let them break down that fucking door. Because if they talk to you and decide you need forced treatment, and their decision can be completely fucking arbitrary and no one ever gets sued or punished for hauling people off for forced treatment, then they will lock you up.
if they talk with you through a window, you will definitely be committed. not opening the door, but only talking through a window, seems paranoid. police would go "what are you hiding?" they will then ask you to open the door, you'll say you don't want to, they'll threaten to break down the door, and then you'll open it if you're too fearful

or you can say nothing at all and not get locked up in some miserable degrading place that strips you of all dignity

your choice

If I do end up getting a welfare check my instincts would make me cross my fingers and hope the police believe me on curing my meats, especially because I am known to eat a lot of meat.

 

[grapevoid]

yeah, but they need to actually talk with you to commit you to a facility. they can't do an evaluation if they don't meet with you.

they can legally enter your home without a warrant, but will they actually break down a door if no one is there or if no one answers? plus, if you aren't there, and they break down the door, that could cause you to flee or ctb, so why would they do that? just say nothing, be quiet, put on headphones, don't leave for 6 hours. they won't wait that long, but they might wait an hour or two if it's a mental health person or if it's ambulance people. just stay quiet.

i would just not say anything, not go to the door, not open, not do anything. i don't even know if I'd move because footsteps would let them know someone is there


Yes, if you have been known to have depression and they are concerned you are going to ctb, they could bust down the door to try to find you. But it's just not that likely.

Talking to them, on the other hand, will get you committed if you've ordered anything that can be used to ctb unless you are incredibly suave. There's a psychiatric nurse who has posted on here and says "Oh I just go and talk to them." But if it were me, I'd let them break down that fucking door. Because if they talk to you and decide you need forced treatment, and their decision can be completely fucking arbitrary and no one ever gets sued or punished for hauling people off for forced treatment, then they will lock you up.
if they talk with you through a window, you will definitely be committed. not opening the door, but only talking through a window, seems paranoid. police would go "what are you hiding?" they will then ask you to open the door, you'll say you don't want to, they'll threaten to break down the door, and then you'll open it if you're too fearful

or you can say nothing at all and not get locked up in some miserable degrading place that strips you of all dignity

your choice

Ain't no way. that's way too much drama. I'd just open the door, admit I have a mental health problem (they likely already know due to my history and all my shit being flagged high risk due to previous attempts) but that I'm fine, I'm receiving treatment and no longer even have the product.
If you act like you have something to hide, They're going to want to find out what you're hiding. If you have a history with mental health issues and just ordered a deadly substance they're going to wonder if you're dead inside.
***inside your home*** I'm sure they don't give a shit that we are all literally dead inside. They just don't want to get blamed for not doing enough when you're found dead.

 

[Peter Skellern]

Uk Police always ask to come into your home. Never do that. Always engage with them on the doorstep. It's legally prudent to do so.

 

[needthebus]

Ain't no way. that's way too much drama. I'd just open the door, admit I have a mental health problem (they likely already know due to my history and all my shit being flagged high risk due to previous attempts) but that I'm fine, I'm receiving treatment and no longer even have the product.
If you act like you have something to hide, They're going to want to find out what you're hiding. If you have a history with mental health issues and just ordered a deadly substance they're going to wonder if you're dead inside.
***inside your home*** I'm sure they don't give a shit that we are all literally dead inside. They just don't want to get blamed for not doing enough when you're found dead.

Yeah, I guess we would disagree.

I think a highly trained police officer, who spends their entire career hearing bullshit and also hearing people telling the truth, will notice your pupils contract when you start talking about suicide, laughing and saying you are fine, and they are going to commit you. I think when you scratch yourself and look toward the distance, the primal instinct to run when people lie, they will see that.

But what do I know? They are just police officers who literally deal with liars every day, over and over and over... but YOU will be the one to trick them... because it's you, and you're different.

Or you could just stay indoors and not say anything and not get tied to a bed and injected with shit.

Your call I guess?

If I do end up getting a welfare check my instincts would make me cross my fingers and hope the police believe me on curing my meats, especially because I am known to eat a lot of meat.

I'm sure police, who deal with bullshit and liars every day over and over and over, it's like the bulk of what they do, will be fooled by you.

Good luck with that!

 

[grapevoid]

Yeah, I guess we would disagree.

I think a highly trained police officer, who spends their entire career hearing bullshit and also hearing people telling the truth, will notice your pupils contract when you start talking about suicide, laughing and saying you are fine, and they are going to commit you. I think when you scratch yourself and look toward the distance, the primal instinct to run when people lie, they will see that.

But what do I know? They are just police officers who literally deal with liars every day, over and over and over... but YOU will be the one to trick them... because it's you, and you're different.

Or you could just stay indoors and not say anything and not get tied to a bed and injected with shit.

Your call I guess?

I'm sure police, who deal with bullshit and liars every day over and over and over, it's like the bulk of what they do, will be fooled by you.

Good luck with that!

Idk I bullshitted my way straight out the psych ward and multiple wellness checks since then. Even with my "history"

This may also depend on where you live (even within the US, because different police departments are going to be different)

 

[LifeIsASadist]

Yeah, I guess we would disagree.

I think a highly trained police officer, who spends their entire career hearing bullshit and also hearing people telling the truth, will notice your pupils contract when you start talking about suicide, laughing and saying you are fine, and they are going to commit you. I think when you scratch yourself and look toward the distance, the primal instinct to run when people lie, they will see that.

Ive already gotten away with lying to a detective before thanks to my step dad being so damn strict on me my entire life I would be scared when he is home I became so good at lying I even decieved a detective who was in the department for longer than I existed.

 

[ventingfrustrations]

This is very useful information I wonder if I get welfare check from police they'll be more lenient if i tell them about my autism diagnosis
Also good news I might not Extremely self harm today (I'll still do small things like pinching and stuff but I'm gonna try to keep it to pinching and maybe look for rubber bands
I'm probably gonna be on here a lot more as I might be switching meds

 

[grapevoid]

This is very useful information I wonder if I get welfare check from police they'll be more lenient if i tell them about my autism diagnosis
Also good news I might not Extremely self harm today (I'll still do small things like pinching and stuff but I'm gonna try to keep it to pinching and maybe look for rubber bands
I'm probably gonna be on here a lot more as I might be switching meds

I'm curious, have you tried the anxiety nervous system shocking when you're feeling like engaging in self harm? (Splashing ice water on your face, ice on the back on the neck, eating something very spicy or raising your heart rate quickly like from jumping jacks or running very fast until you can't anymore?)

 

[ventingfrustrations]

No I'll try that
I might be avoiding sh but my ideation is off the charts
Si is through the roof though

 

[pastmyexpiration]

If you're in the US you don't have to open your door for anybody. You never have to open your door I had the popo come to my door one time and I just told them go away without a search warrant. I had not opened the door ever and they went away and never came back.

Fourth Amendment Explained
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

[Forveleth]

Ive already gotten away with lying to a detective before thanks to my step dad being so damn strict on me my entire life I would be scared when he is home I became so good at lying I even decieved a detective who was in the department for longer than I existed.

I saw a meme once that said "Overprotective parents raise the best liars". It is not wrong.

They can 100% force entry for a welfare check if they think you are an imminent threat to yourself or others. You have to demonstrate to them that you are not actively about to injure yourself or they can come in to "ensure your safety".

Sources:
(pdf file) https://www.theiacp.org/sites/default/files/2023-09/WelfareChecks-2023.09_0.pdf

https://policepathfinder.com/can-police-force-entry-for-a-welfare-check/

Can You Refuse a Welfare Check by Police or Authorities?

Explore your rights and the implications of refusing a welfare check by police or authorities, including potential consequences and legal considerations.

legalclarity.org

 

[LifeIsASadist]

I saw a meme once that said "Overprotective parents raise the best liars". It is not wrong.

Holy shit I cant even believe it, thanks step dad for making me that way.

They can 100% force entry for a welfare check if they think you are an imminent threat to yourself or others. You have to demonstrate to them that you are not actively about to injure yourself or they can come in to "ensure your safety".

Sources:
(pdf file) https://www.theiacp.org/sites/default/files/2023-09/WelfareChecks-2023.09_0.pdf

https://policepathfinder.com/can-police-force-entry-for-a-welfare-check/

Can You Refuse a Welfare Check by Police or Authorities?

Explore your rights and the implications of refusing a welfare check by police or authorities, including potential consequences and legal considerations.

legalclarity.org

 

[fallingleaves]

This depends on your location but in my experience yes. I would suggest erring on the side of caution and assuming that they can. Am not from the US though.

 

[LifeIsASadist]

This depends on your location but in my experience yes. I would suggest erring on the side of caution and assuming that they can. Am not from the US though.

If it does happen
Police:Hey are you ok?
Me:sure.
Police:Why did you buy this SN?
Me:For my meat

Just hopefully that it ends there, I am known to eat a lot of steaks

 

[fallingleaves]

They need a warrant unless they can see something in plain view when you open the door that gives then probable cause. Or, if someone else invites them in the home. Or, if you say something to them such as you're going to harm yourself. Frankly, just don't open the door. They can't break it down. Also, I haven't heard of any US welfare checks. SN is still legal.

This is all wrong in my experience (ymmv)

yeah, but they need to actually talk with you to commit you to a facility. they can't do an evaluation if they don't meet with you.

they can legally enter your home without a warrant, but will they actually break down a door if no one is there or if no one answers? plus, if you aren't there, and they break down the door, that could cause you to flee or ctb, so why would they do that? just say nothing, be quiet, put on headphones, don't leave for 6 hours. they won't wait that long, but they might wait an hour or two if it's a mental health person or if it's ambulance people. just stay quiet.

i would just not say anything, not go to the door, not open, not do anything. i don't even know if I'd move because footsteps would let them know someone is there


Yes, if you have been known to have depression and they are concerned you are going to ctb, they could bust down the door to try to find you. But it's just not that likely.

Talking to them, on the other hand, will get you committed if you've ordered anything that can be used to ctb unless you are incredibly suave. There's a psychiatric nurse who has posted on here and says "Oh I just go and talk to them." But if it were me, I'd let them break down that fucking door. Because if they talk to you and decide you need forced treatment, and their decision can be completely fucking arbitrary and no one ever gets sued or punished for hauling people off for forced treatment, then they will lock you up.
if they talk with you through a window, you will definitely be committed. not opening the door, but only talking through a window, seems paranoid. police would go "what are you hiding?" they will then ask you to open the door, you'll say you don't want to, they'll threaten to break down the door, and then you'll open it if you're too fearful

or you can say nothing at all and not get locked up in some miserable degrading place that strips you of all dignity

your choice

Can confirm that they WILL enter if no one is there. Have experienced this.

This is very useful information I wonder if I get welfare check from police they'll be more lenient if i tell them about my autism diagnosis
Also good news I might not Extremely self harm today (I'll still do small things like pinching and stuff but I'm gonna try to keep it to pinching and maybe look for rubber bands
I'm probably gonna be on here a lot more as I might be switching meds

No, do not tell them about your autism unless you think that telling them about it could provide a benefit that outweighs the ways they can harm you for being autistic. Autistic people are among the groups of people most often killed by cops. Which I guess in this forum might be a plus but don't fucking do it.

If it does happen
Police:Hey are you ok?
Me:sure.
Police:Why did you buy this SN?
Me:For my meat

Just hopefully that it ends there, I am known to eat a lot of steaks

They can be really insistent and you should consider the possibility that they may not drop the issue there. My philosophy right now is to avoid the cops altogether but for me that means actually fleeing my home if I get tipped off that they're coming. I had to do that last fall.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

This is all wrong in my experience (ymmv)

That must have pc - probable cause. If you give them explicit permission, they can enter without a warrant. If there is someone else there who is authorized to allow them to enter, and they give permission (example - a roomate), then police can enter without a warrant. They cannot just come and bust your door down without a warrant and without PC. However, if you are being chased by police, and you run into your house, they can probably break your door down because you'd be guilty of a felony. Again, they have PC. If you are a probationer or parolee, a "reasonableness" cause of search must be met. If they break your door down with no warrant, or no PC, they have violated your 4th Amendement rights. This is for USA only.

 

[fallingleaves]

That must have pc - probable cause. If you give them explicit permission, they can enter without a warrant. If there is someone else there who is authorized to allow them to enter, and they give permission (example - a roomate), then police can enter without a warrant. They cannot just come and bust your door down without a warrant and without PC. However, if you are being chased by police, and you run into your house, they can probably break your door down because you'd be guilty of a felony. Again, they have PC. If you are a probationer or parolee, a "reasonableness" cause of search must be met. If they break your door down with no warrant, or no PC, they have violated your 4th Amendement rights. This is for USA only.

This just doesn't reflect my experience in Canada. Which I believe is similar to the US in this respect but may have differences. I have never given the cops explicit permission to enter my home here, but they do anyway. The cops have never pursued me for a crime, only for mental health reasons.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

This just doesn't reflect my experience in Canada. Which I believe is similar to the US in this respect but may have differences. I have never given the cops explicit permission to enter my home here, but they do anyway. The cops have never pursued me for a crime, only for mental health reasons.

Well, you're in Canada. It may be similar, but it's not the same. It's not my intent to insult, but it's kind of a "nanny" state up there.

Quick story then I'm done here. Many years ago when my mom was still alive, I made a trip up into Michigan to get a tarp for my boat. Now, my mom relied on me a lot and she lived alone. I didn't have a cellphone back then and I neglected to tell her I was going on a "day trip" up to Michigan. Anyways, she couldn't get in touch with me all day, and into the evening, and she got worried. So, eventually, she called the cops to do a "welfare" check on me. Well, they did come (I learned later), but I wasn't home.

So, when I didn't answer my door, did they break it down? No. They couldn't. Just because I didn't answer the door is not enough "probable cause" to bust down my door, even though my mother reported to them she was unable to get in touch with me for many hours. And they may have "assumed" I was home because there were multiple vehicles in my driveway (I had several cars at the time), and I also have a garage that cannot be seen into. The point is I could have been on the floor of my living room dead for all they "know", but it takes something "more" to allow for a breakdown of a door. Perhaps mail piling up in a mailbox? Or, stench eminating from the house? Maybe a longer period of time with no contact? Something "more".

I found out the cops had come by earlier to check on me because they came back again, and KNOCKED on my door, after I had arrived back home.

 

[fallingleaves]

Well, you're in Canada. It may be similar, but it's not the same. It's not my intent to insult, but it's kind of a "nanny" state up there.

Quick story then I'm done here. Many years ago when my mom was still alive, I made a trip up into Michigan to get a tarp for my boat. Now, my mom relied on me a lot and she lived alone. I didn't have a cellphone back then and I neglected to tell her I was going on a "day trip" up to Michigan. Anyways, she couldn't get in touch with me all day, and into the evening, and she got worried. So, eventually, she called the cops to do a "welfare" check on me. Well, they did come (I learned later), but I wasn't home.

So, when I didn't answer my door, did they break it down? No. They couldn't. Just because I didn't answer the door is not enough "probable cause" to bust down my door, even though my mother reported to them she was unable to get in touch with me for many hours. And they may have "assumed" I was home because there were multiple vehicles in my driveway (I had several cars at the time), and I also have a garage that cannot be seen into. The point is I could have been on the floor of my living room dead for all they "know", but it takes something "more" to allow for a breakdown of a door. Perhaps mail piling up in a mailbox? Or, stench eminating from the house? Maybe a longer period of time with no contact? Something "more".

I found out the cops had come by earlier to check on me because they came back again, and KNOCKED on my door, after I had arrived back home.

No, sorry. You shouldn't be encouraging people to disregard this very real threat. My understanding is that things vary a lot from state to state in the US. Your story doesn't invalidate my story or the threat of legal intervention for other American users.